I'm not really sure. I use the cleaning products these came with it. I've never used the defining paste. I can say that the wen products ive used are amazing. sorry I can't be any help
F&W very costly an this is why I use everday and my hair s growing ad no more frizz and I can comb through it when is wet.Very soft and not so dry anymore.A lot Healthier.to the rescue.lol